The loudness button on all new stereo receivers is gone .The advent of the subwoofer and RTA makes the system obsolite.
Fletcher
The loudness button on all new stereo receivers is gone .The advent of the subwoofer and RTA makes the system obsolite.
Fletcher
How do subwoofers and RTAs make loudness buttons obsolete? IMO, it was lack of standardisation of domestic audio equipment operating levels and of sound pressure calibration of loudspeakers/rooms that made loudness buttons obsolete.
BobR
THe Sub woofer fills the room with ambiant bass. If you have a more sophisticated system with active compononets you can RTA the sound perfectly.Originally Posted by joyspring
Classic Loudness +30DB in the bass control is automatic in that it is directly tied to the volume control of the amp. As the volume control is turned up/down, the frequency curve is also changed, per the Fletcher-Munson curve, so the human ear perceives consistency
The self powered sub woofer output on all new recivers is directly linked to volume control also.
Quote from Parts Express :What is the best way to get the audio signal to the subwoofer amplifier? If your system is a relatively new multi-channel home theater receiver, it will have an "LFE" (low frequency effect) or subwoofer output. This is a single or dual-mono RCA jack output and is the best way to get the signal from the processor to the subwoofer. The output level of this jack will change in unison with the main volume control of the receiver, meaning that once you set the relative level of the subwoofer it should always match the main speakers. This jack also usually has an adjustable output level that can provide more or less signal to the subwoofer, useful in "fine tuning" the bass levels. Usually the default setting of 0 dB will work well with most subwoofers, but in some cases raising or lowering this may be necessary. Generally we want the subwoofer's volume control to be set near 50%.:
THis summs it up.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...6&postcount=14
Yamaha still makes it but with a variable loudness .
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...384641-0735426
Last edited by LICORNE; September 25th, 2012 at 01:11 PM.
A subwoofer does assist at low frequency but so will any large system that has sufficient volume displacement and proper tuning.
You can RTA the sound perfectly at a single listening level. When you turn your volume knob down, a preamp/receiver/amplifier will not compensate for equal loudness...
But you then mention active components - by which I assume you're referring to DSP - and yes, the better implementations (i.e. - Audyssey XT, etc.) do have equal loudness compensation based upon its room test measurements. This has nothing to do with subwoofers or RTAs as mentioned in your OP.
Classic Loudness control is automatic in that it is directly tied to the volume control of the amp. As the volume control is turned up/down, the frequency curve is also changed, per the Fletcher-Munson curve, so the human ear perceives consistency
The "Classic Loudness Control" is tied to the volume control of an amp by using a tapped potentiometer (usu. at 40%) to implement a facsimile of equal loudness curves at lower listening levels with the volume control below the tap. This never was standardised because it would be impossible to do so.
As I mentioned before, proper implementation depends on loudspeaker sensitivity, amplifier gain, room acoustical loading.
I would hope so.The self powered sub woofer output on all new recivers is directly linked to volume control also.
BTW, the term `Fletcher-Munson' has been deprecated as subsequent research resulted in an international standard (ISO 226) referred to as `Equal Loudness Contour'.
BobR
Kinda silly dude. Most home systems DO NOT have RTA so that has absolutely nothing to do with it. OTOH what they do have is better onboard EQ, some systems have rudimentary signal processing. But ain't no RTA. You keep assuming that if you want something everybody else does. 999 out of 1000, maybe even more, home systems do not have RTA.
Your neighbors called. They like your music.
Nice of you to edit this post _after_ I replied to it.
There was _never_ any standard as to how a manufacturer attempted to implement this.Classic Loudness +30DB in the bass control is automatic in that it is directly tied to the volume control of the amp. As the volume control is turned up/down, the frequency curve is also changed, per the Fletcher-Munson curve, so the human ear perceives consistency
None ever adhered to `Fletcher-Munson' (or its successors) because that would entail the critical step of a _user_ calibrating a system to a specific reference sound pressure.
While most utilised a tapped potentiometer, I've got schematics from several receivers/preamps - from a mono Sherwood S-1000-II to a Kenwood KA-801 - and all use differing amounts of LF equalisation and turnover frequencies. The Sherwood offers upwards of +20 dB at 20 hz whereas the Kenwood and NAD preamp have 9-12 dB and all have different turnover fs.
Again, how manufacturers implemented `Classic Loudness' was never standardised and none adhered to `Fletcher Munson' or standardised equal loudness curves... how could they?
I currently work with cinema sound in both sound design/mixing and presentation in an educational setting so I will clear up how this 5.1 subwoofer/LFE business works for you...Quote from Parts Express :What is the best way to get the audio signal to the subwoofer amplifier? If your system is a relatively new multi-channel home theater receiver, it will have an "LFE" (low frequency effect) or subwoofer output. This is a single or dual-mono RCA jack output and is the best way to get the signal from the processor to the subwoofer. The output level of this jack will change in unison with the main volume control of the receiver, meaning that once you set the relative level of the subwoofer it should always match the main speakers. This jack also usually has an adjustable output level that can provide more or less signal to the subwoofer, useful in "fine tuning" the bass levels. Usually the default setting of 0 dB will work well with most subwoofers, but in some cases raising or lowering this may be necessary. Generally we want the subwoofer's volume control to be set near 50%.:
There is one subwoofer channel; it is fed by two sources: output from Bass Management and Low Frequency Effects (LFE):
1. Bass Management -- redirected, summed and low-passed (typically 80 hz) from Left, Centre, Right, Left Surround and Right Surround audio tracks.
2. Low Frequency Effects (LFE) -- A completely separate magnetic audio track introduced with 70 mm six-channel and now integrated into Dolby digital formats. This track is typically low-passed at 120 hz and here's the _critical_ distinction: it is _boosted_ +10 dB relative to L, C, R, Ls and Rs tracks. Mixers use the LFE track sparingly for effects and it is never downmixed.
Now that I've cleared the subwoofer utilisation up for you, let me mention that your belated inclusion of the Parts Express instructions is completely and entirely irrelevant to the concept of Equal Loudness.
BobR
Yes I`m aware of all this I did spent some time in a Post prod. facility. And to continue on the 5.1 tracking here is a basic
set up .
NAB 2009 - Innovations in post production workflows with creative tools (2 of 2) - YouTube
Are you looking for coherent discussion, or just posting things? Seems like you make a lot of posts without thinking it thru.
Your neighbors called. They like your music.
THis would be the setting for small speakers : you have a summation of all channels to the sub. IN the case of large speakers setting there is somme summation.The chart spec is not clear on the subject.That is why people hear more bass with small speakers and less with large speakers when listening to OPera from the Met or the Grammys. This Dolby 5.1 sytem was designed for professional cinema application. THe Low FRequecy Effects channell adds 10 DB boost to the effects .
The DP571 dolby encoder
Last edited by LICORNE; September 30th, 2012 at 02:27 PM.
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